Comments on: Do as I say, not as I do me and you and everyone we know Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:22:11 -0500 hourly 1 By: Jack Shedd http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-72 Jack Shedd Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:45:20 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-72 I was talking to you specifically jonezy, just in general. I was talking to you specifically jonezy, just in general.

]]> By: jonezy http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-71 jonezy Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:41:55 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-71 oh also, i love fogcreek and joe's products... my life would would be a living hell without fogbugz. oh also, i love fogcreek and joe’s products… my life would would be a living hell without fogbugz.

]]> By: jonezy http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-70 jonezy Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:41:10 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-70 LOL, come on dude. You know i'm not a rails guy... I also didn't say any of his criticism's were incorrect either. They are simply his opinions and they are proven wrong by a various number of sites that run on rails in an enterprise environment. why you so mad? LOL, come on dude. You know i’m not a rails guy… I also didn’t say any of his criticism’s were incorrect either. They are simply his opinions and they are proven wrong by a various number of sites that run on rails in an enterprise environment.

why you so mad?

]]> By: Jack Shedd http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-69 Jack Shedd Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:36:35 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-69 It's amazing how many people jumped on Joel's back, not because what he said was wrong (none of his criticisms of RoR are incorrect) but because he dare to attack the sacred cow of Rails. It’s amazing how many people jumped on Joel’s back, not because what he said was wrong (none of his criticisms of RoR are incorrect) but because he dare to attack the sacred cow of Rails.

]]> By: Jacob http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-68 Jacob Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:25:58 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-68 "and that is exactly what rails was 3 years ago" Which is exactly why nobody should get offended when Joel suggests that it might not yet be the safest choice for enterprise class development. "I am simply saying that Joel is being a little irresponsible in his very negative attitude towards rails that is all" He didn't show a "very negative" attitue towards Rails. He classified it as a platform "where The Jury Is Not In" but also said that for non-mission-critical apps it would probably be perfectly ok to use. He also cited some very good reasons why he doesn't consider it mature enough for Fortune 500s to start betting the company on. There was no bashing or negativity. Irresponsible would be if he had said "sure, I think Rails is just as safe a choice as .NET or Java for anything you might want to do" when, in fact, it is not. “and that is exactly what rails was 3 years ago”

Which is exactly why nobody should get offended when Joel suggests that it might not yet be the safest choice for enterprise class development.

“I am simply saying that Joel is being a little irresponsible in his very negative attitude towards rails that is all”

He didn’t show a “very negative” attitue towards Rails. He classified it as a platform “where The Jury Is Not In” but also said that for non-mission-critical apps it would probably be perfectly ok to use. He also cited some very good reasons why he doesn’t consider it mature enough for Fortune 500s to start betting the company on. There was no bashing or negativity. Irresponsible would be if he had said “sure, I think Rails is just as safe a choice as .NET or Java for anything you might want to do” when, in fact, it is not.

]]> By: jonezy http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-67 jonezy Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:24:49 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-67 "It’s a very specific tool to solve a very specific problem that, AFAIK, isn’t solved by any available language or platform." and that is exactly what rails was 3 years ago. Again, I'm not comparing apples to oranges here... I am simply saying that Joel is being a little irresponsible in his very negative attitude towards rails that is all “It’s a very specific tool to solve a very specific problem that, AFAIK, isn’t solved by any available language or platform.”

and that is exactly what rails was 3 years ago. Again, I’m not comparing apples to oranges here… I am simply saying that Joel is being a little irresponsible in his very negative attitude towards rails that is all

]]> By: Jacob http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-66 Jacob Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:18:29 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-66 One man's unnecessary fear is another's reasonable caution. I don't see anything the least bit unreasonable about Joel's comments on Rails. DHH's reply on the other hand was completely over the top, childish even. "I haven’t really seen anyone not get the distinction between the 2?" The whole "do as I say, not as I do" argument brought up by David and repeated by everyone, including yourself, is what I'm talking about. Wasabi is not a platform for the masses. It's a very specific tool to solve a very specific problem that, AFAIK, isn't solved by any available language or platform. Where's the "do as I say, not as I do" in creating such tools? One man’s unnecessary fear is another’s reasonable caution. I don’t see anything the least bit unreasonable about Joel’s comments on Rails. DHH’s reply on the other hand was completely over the top, childish even.

“I haven’t really seen anyone not get the distinction between the 2?”

The whole “do as I say, not as I do” argument brought up by David and repeated by everyone, including yourself, is what I’m talking about. Wasabi is not a platform for the masses. It’s a very specific tool to solve a very specific problem that, AFAIK, isn’t solved by any available language or platform. Where’s the “do as I say, not as I do” in creating such tools?

]]> By: jonezy http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-65 jonezy Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:40:42 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-65 I don't the DHH's point is that Rails is some enterprise class language... I think his issue is that Joel was instilling some unnecessary fear into people. Sure ROR might not be ready for the big time but how will it ever be unless some people lead the charge and take some risks and use it? I haven't really seen anyone not get the distinction between the 2? I don’t the DHH’s point is that Rails is some enterprise class language… I think his issue is that Joel was instilling some unnecessary fear into people. Sure ROR might not be ready for the big time but how will it ever be unless some people lead the charge and take some risks and use it?

I haven’t really seen anyone not get the distinction between the 2?

]]> By: Jacob http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-64 Jacob Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:30:57 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-64 Why do otherwise intelligent people have such a hard time understanding the difference between RoR and Wasabi. It's so simple a five year old could get it. Joel makes the perfectly valid argument that RoR may not be ready for enterprise prime time (but he doesn't discount its future applicability). He then mentions Wasabi, but he's not saying that it's enterprise-ready either. In fact, he directly says it would NOT be appropriate for wide-spread use; but it works for their specific needs. Unlike DHH though, Joel is not touting his internally built tool/DSL as a miracle elixir to cure whatever ails you. Why do otherwise intelligent people have such a hard time understanding the difference between RoR and Wasabi. It’s so simple a five year old could get it. Joel makes the perfectly valid argument that RoR may not be ready for enterprise prime time (but he doesn’t discount its future applicability). He then mentions Wasabi, but he’s not saying that it’s enterprise-ready either. In fact, he directly says it would NOT be appropriate for wide-spread use; but it works for their specific needs. Unlike DHH though, Joel is not touting his internally built tool/DSL as a miracle elixir to cure whatever ails you.

]]> By: jonezy http://www.jonezy.org/blog/2006/09/02/do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/comment-page-1/#comment-63 jonezy Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:52:33 +0000 http://www.jonezy.org/blog/?p=50#comment-63 I agree with you in principal Roland, but my major point of difference is that how is rails supposed to get any sort of enterprise traction without eearly adopters? Without the open source community around the software and the early adopters taking the risks and go into production with it the language will never move forward. I agree with you in principal Roland, but my major point of difference is that how is rails supposed to get any sort of enterprise traction without eearly adopters? Without the open source community around the software and the early adopters taking the risks and go into production with it the language will never move forward.

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